Comments on: Immigration and the GOP http://sorendayton.com/2007/09/19/immigration-and-the-gop/ Merely an aggregation of a dispersed life online Fri, 27 Nov 2009 06:08:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: The environment among conservatives? http://sorendayton.com/2007/09/19/immigration-and-the-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-1398 The environment among conservatives? Tue, 25 Sep 2007 13:41:41 +0000 http://www.eyeon08.com/2007/09/19/immigration-and-the-gop/#comment-1398 [...] Last week, I criticized my friend Robert Bluey’s reading of Michael Gerson’s position on immigration. My criticism was, on a broader level, that the conservative movement has very little capacity to understand conservatives who disagree with it on principal. More specifically, when deeply held beliefs begin to come into conflict with the increasingly interest group driven conservative movement agenda, the conservative movement struggles. This is, of course, where constituencies are gained and lost. [...] [...] Last week, I criticized my friend Robert Bluey’s reading of Michael Gerson’s position on immigration. My criticism was, on a broader level, that the conservative movement has very little capacity to understand conservatives who disagree with it on principal. More specifically, when deeply held beliefs begin to come into conflict with the increasingly interest group driven conservative movement agenda, the conservative movement struggles. This is, of course, where constituencies are gained and lost. [...]

]]> By: eyeon08.com » The environment among conservatives? http://sorendayton.com/2007/09/19/immigration-and-the-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-1397 eyeon08.com » The environment among conservatives? Tue, 25 Sep 2007 12:43:41 +0000 http://www.eyeon08.com/2007/09/19/immigration-and-the-gop/#comment-1397 [...] The environment among conservatives? digg_url = 'http://www.eyeon08.com/2007/09/25/the-environment-among-conservatives/'; digg_title = 'The environment among conservatives?'; digg_bodytext = 'Last week, I criticized my friend Robert Bluey’s reading of Michael Gerson’s position on immigration. My criticism was, on a broader level, that the conservative movement has very little capacity to understand conservatives who disagree with it on principal. More specifically, when deeply held beliefs begin to come into conflict with the increasingly interest group [...]'; digg_skin = "compact"; digg_topic = "politics"; ( function() { var ds=typeof digg_skin=='string'?digg_skin:''; var h=80; var w=52; if(ds=='compact') { h=18; w=120; } var u=typeof digg_url=='string'?digg_url:(typeof DIGG_URL=='string'?DIGG_URL:window.location.href); document.write(""); } )() Last week, I criticized my friend Robert Bluey’s reading of Michael Gerson’s position on immigration. My criticism was, on a broader level, that the conservative movement has very little capacity to understand conservatives who disagree with it on principal. More specifically, when deeply held beliefs begin to come into conflict with the increasingly interest group driven conservative movement agenda, the conservative movement struggles. This is, of course, where constituencies are gained and lost. [...] [...] The environment among conservatives? digg_url = ‘http://www.eyeon08.com/2007/09/25/the-environment-among-conservatives/’; digg_title = ‘The environment among conservatives?’; digg_bodytext = ‘Last week, I criticized my friend Robert Bluey’s reading of Michael Gerson’s position on immigration. My criticism was, on a broader level, that the conservative movement has very little capacity to understand conservatives who disagree with it on principal. More specifically, when deeply held beliefs begin to come into conflict with the increasingly interest group [...]‘; digg_skin = “compact”; digg_topic = “politics”; ( function() { var ds=typeof digg_skin==’string’?digg_skin:”; var h=80; var w=52; if(ds==’compact’) { h=18; w=120; } var u=typeof digg_url==’string’?digg_url:(typeof DIGG_URL==’string’?DIGG_URL:window.location.href); document.write(“”); } )() Last week, I criticized my friend Robert Bluey’s reading of Michael Gerson’s position on immigration. My criticism was, on a broader level, that the conservative movement has very little capacity to understand conservatives who disagree with it on principal. More specifically, when deeply held beliefs begin to come into conflict with the increasingly interest group driven conservative movement agenda, the conservative movement struggles. This is, of course, where constituencies are gained and lost. [...]

]]> By: Rachel http://sorendayton.com/2007/09/19/immigration-and-the-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-1396 Rachel Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:58:46 +0000 http://www.eyeon08.com/2007/09/19/immigration-and-the-gop/#comment-1396 Racism is all you've got Neil, isn't it? Racism is all you’ve got Neil, isn’t it?

]]> By: Zarathustra http://sorendayton.com/2007/09/19/immigration-and-the-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-1395 Zarathustra Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:57:36 +0000 http://www.eyeon08.com/2007/09/19/immigration-and-the-gop/#comment-1395 "I guess the other possibility is “bald-faced lie” assuming that people won’t know how sparsely populated the Southwest is compared to the east of the Mississippi." Well, that would be a fairly devastating, knockdown argument if all that was needed to sustain human life was a physical place to locate their domicile. Unfortunately, modern industrial society is substantially more complex and resource intensive than that. The water situation out here in many places is past critical, and even in Texas, which is far from being a desert state, the legislature is ready to spend tens of billions to add reservoirs just about everywhere they can possibly be placed. "That’s why one of Tancredo’s big backers is also a big supporter of Planned Parenthood." Dr. Tanton was last on the board of PP of Northern Michigan years ago, and to my knowledge he hasn't been affiliated with the group for decades. It's unfair in the extreme to hold this against Tanton today, but it's even worse to smear Tancredo by association for the crime of having a supporter who supported legal abortion in the 1970's. "but I didn’t know that [pro-immigration reform] politicians have been making appeals to environmentalism and [population]." It would behoove you to go take a quick peek at the site of <a href="http://www.numbersusa.com" rel="nofollow">NumbersUSA</a> (arguably the leading immigration reform organization in the country) and examine some of their many materials on population and sustainability, then come back and make that same claim again. “I guess the other possibility is “bald-faced lie” assuming that people won’t know how sparsely populated the Southwest is compared to the east of the Mississippi.”

Well, that would be a fairly devastating, knockdown argument if all that was needed to sustain human life was a physical place to locate their domicile. Unfortunately, modern industrial society is substantially more complex and resource intensive than that. The water situation out here in many places is past critical, and even in Texas, which is far from being a desert state, the legislature is ready to spend tens of billions to add reservoirs just about everywhere they can possibly be placed.

“That’s why one of Tancredo’s big backers is also a big supporter of Planned Parenthood.”

Dr. Tanton was last on the board of PP of Northern Michigan years ago, and to my knowledge he hasn’t been affiliated with the group for decades. It’s unfair in the extreme to hold this against Tanton today, but it’s even worse to smear Tancredo by association for the crime of having a supporter who supported legal abortion in the 1970’s.

“but I didn’t know that [pro-immigration reform] politicians have been making appeals to environmentalism and [population].”

It would behoove you to go take a quick peek at the site of NumbersUSA (arguably the leading immigration reform organization in the country) and examine some of their many materials on population and sustainability, then come back and make that same claim again.

]]> By: neil http://sorendayton.com/2007/09/19/immigration-and-the-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-1394 neil Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:21:33 +0000 http://www.eyeon08.com/2007/09/19/immigration-and-the-gop/#comment-1394 Racism usually comes with some justification, usually about all the nefarious things that "they" are doing or want to do to "us". Racism usually comes with some justification, usually about all the nefarious things that “they” are doing or want to do to “us”.

]]> By: Rachel http://sorendayton.com/2007/09/19/immigration-and-the-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-1393 Rachel Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:15:14 +0000 http://www.eyeon08.com/2007/09/19/immigration-and-the-gop/#comment-1393 Soren, I grew up in a spanish speaking country. I am not anti-hispanic. I want people to come here who want to be Americans. I want them to want to assimilate. But that isn't what brings them here. It is money. They flood our schools which in turn drives up our costs, which leads to higher property taxes. They drive on our roads, with no liscence or insurance. They surpress wages in a lot of areas, not just in the agriculture sector. The agriculture sector is whining about not having enough workers. That is because the illegals have moved on, they are in factories and constuction. Americans out here in middle America see all this and then are gobsmacked when our representatives in Congress want to reward all that by putting them on a path to citizenship. There is an anger out here, just below the surface that you cannot imagine. It is not racism. It is anger at business and goverment who seem to want to undermine our standard of living. Soren,
I grew up in a spanish speaking country. I am not anti-hispanic. I want people to come here who want to be Americans. I want them to want to assimilate. But that isn’t what brings them here. It is money.
They flood our schools which in turn drives up our costs, which leads to higher property taxes. They drive on our roads, with no liscence or insurance.
They surpress wages in a lot of areas, not just in the agriculture sector. The agriculture sector is whining about not having enough workers. That is because the illegals have moved on, they are in factories and constuction.
Americans out here in middle America see all this and then are gobsmacked when our representatives in Congress want to reward all that by putting them on a path to citizenship.
There is an anger out here, just below the surface that you cannot imagine. It is not racism. It is anger at business and goverment who seem to want to undermine our standard of living.

]]> By: neil http://sorendayton.com/2007/09/19/immigration-and-the-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-1392 neil Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:18:45 +0000 http://www.eyeon08.com/2007/09/19/immigration-and-the-gop/#comment-1392 I guess the other possibility is "bald-faced lie" assuming that people won't know how sparsely populated the Southwest is compared to the east of the Mississippi. But it probably is environmentalism -- not enough water, destruction of habitats. I knew that some environmentalist groups have been moving in an anti-immigration direction, but I didn't know that anti-immigrant politicians have been making appeals to environmentalism and ZPG rhetoric. I guess the other possibility is “bald-faced lie” assuming that people won’t know how sparsely populated the Southwest is compared to the east of the Mississippi.

But it probably is environmentalism — not enough water, destruction of habitats. I knew that some environmentalist groups have been moving in an anti-immigration direction, but I didn’t know that anti-immigrant politicians have been making appeals to environmentalism and ZPG rhetoric.

]]> By: eye http://sorendayton.com/2007/09/19/immigration-and-the-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-1391 eye Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:05:22 +0000 http://www.eyeon08.com/2007/09/19/immigration-and-the-gop/#comment-1391 Overpopulation is a standard lefty argument. The overpopulation guys are also usually eugenicists. That's why one of Tancredo's big backers is also a big supporter of Planned Parenthood. He just wants fewer people. Overpopulation is a standard lefty argument. The overpopulation guys are also usually eugenicists. That’s why one of Tancredo’s big backers is also a big supporter of Planned Parenthood.

He just wants fewer people.

]]> By: neil http://sorendayton.com/2007/09/19/immigration-and-the-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-1390 neil Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:03:27 +0000 http://www.eyeon08.com/2007/09/19/immigration-and-the-gop/#comment-1390 Overpopulated? That's a new one by me. Is it just code for "too many non-white people" or is it an environmentally grounded argument? Overpopulated? That’s a new one by me. Is it just code for “too many non-white people” or is it an environmentally grounded argument?

]]> By: eye http://sorendayton.com/2007/09/19/immigration-and-the-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-1389 eye Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:53:12 +0000 http://www.eyeon08.com/2007/09/19/immigration-and-the-gop/#comment-1389 Rachel, I would disagree. I think it is more that I just disagree about what our priorities should be. I also grew up in a Hispanic neighborhood in Chicago. The two useful languages at the corner store were Spanish and Polish. Didn't bother me then. Doesn't bother me now. Soren Rachel,

I would disagree. I think it is more that I just disagree about what our priorities should be.

I also grew up in a Hispanic neighborhood in Chicago. The two useful languages at the corner store were Spanish and Polish. Didn’t bother me then. Doesn’t bother me now.

Soren

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